The World Can't Wait!

From Drive out the Bush Regime. Mobilize for November 2, 2005!:

Your government, on the basis of outrageous lies, is waging a murderous and utterly illegitimate war in Iraq, with other countries in their sights.

Your government is openly torturing people, and justifying it.

Your government puts people in jail on the merest suspicion, refusing them lawyers, and either holding them indefinitely or deporting them in the dead of night

Your government  is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule. 

Your government  suppresses the science that doesn’t fit its religious, political and economic agenda, forcing present and future generations to pay a terrible price. 

Your government  is moving to deny women here, and all over the world, the right to birth control and abortion.

Your government  enforces a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance and ignorance.

Comments

[dlw]

What specifically are they planning for Nov 2?

It sounds like a bunch of hopping-mad liberals think they can make Bush's ratings sink even more if they all protest together at the capitol and/or state capitols.

I can see this getting ugly rather easily.

dlw

[Carlos]

dlw, It seems they are planning a very pro-manicheist manifestation, but no need to get too pessimistic. Just a little street theater to release some Bush induced stress.

[dlw]

I hope things will be under control and peaceful.

Manicheists tend to encourage the other side to show up also ready to get rowdy and what-not...

dlw

[Carlos]

They want a "massive day of resistance" hoping everybody will skip their normal occupations and clog up the streets. They don't talk about non-violent resistance nor do they talk about violent resistance. Where were these people on Nov. 2 of 2004 when we needed them to resist Bush at the voting booth?

It is good to see some resistance, but I agree it would be better to resist in a less manicheistic, jingoistic, cindysheehanistic way. Any ideas?

[dlw]

They could tone down the rhetoric some, try and appeal more to the mainstream, and commit themselves to something more than a rally.

I think some form of civil disobedience likely resulting in a couple of days of jail-sentence might be something that would grab people's attention. I mean if you really think that Bush is leading our country down the drain, you ought to be willing to do more than a rally that can be countered with another (albeit somewhat smaller) rally by the other side.

The real question would then be what sort of civil disobedience would be appropriate? Any ideas, anyone?

dlw

[dlw]

They also are individualizing it. It'd be better to coordinate with others, getting churches, mosques and tabernacle leaders in on the event.

They could target recent extreme partisanship in the handling of Katrina such as putting the divisive figure of Karl Rove in charge of the rebuilding when he's under investigation for unethical conduct with the Plame case.

They could call for a leader who will truly be a uniter, not a divider.

One doesn't need to use the laundry list of liberal complaints about Bush to get people to show up and there needs to be at least a subset that would commit themselves to some minor form of civil disobedience as a way of signalling the seriousness of their concern about the direction the BushAdmin is leading us.

dlw

[nf cowan]

I can't wait for all the Fringe Elements- The Anarchists, The Hoodlums who looted post-Katrina, The 'Feminists' who want to lop off pee pees, The Grunge-Meisters, The Streak-Meisters, and all the Other Disaffected Whiners in this Country- all of them can get together on November 2, 2005 and in the spirit of peace, love, and brotherhood will all get together for a few moments of hand-holding before they go out and (figuratively, at least) bash those Conservative Republicans (read Fascist) over their figurative heads.

If I pawned figurative baseball bats for a living, I'd be a millionaire many times over.

I'm already counting down the days...

[dlw]

thanks for reminding me why I've been ignoring your posts, NF.

dlw

[nf cowan]

I'm counting on dlw to join the mob- er the 'civil' disobedients- and add to the feeding frenzy.

Advice: dlw better remember bring his toothbrush for the 2-3 days of jail time which will inevitably ensue when the authorities throw his backside in the clink.

Yeehaw!

[SR]

Didn't they have a massive day of protest? It was called the 2000 and 2004 elections, and THEY LOST. Someone quick go tell them, ah, forget it, it will be FUN watching them make fools of themselves once again. 2006/2008 are coming soon and I predict they and their ideas will once again LOSE, mostly due to the fact that they are living in the past.

[Hattie]

Ah, the fascist sneer!
I'm glad all you fascists are going to have to suffer the consequences of the Bush regime right along with all the rest of us.

[The Atheist]

What's really funny though, is that SR probably doesn't think Bush is a very good president either, but, being the good partisan he is, he has to rush to Bush's defense if any "liberals" are criticizing his fellow party-member.

I don't know about the rest of you, but if a Democrat is an idiot, I'll tell it like it is. The fact that I tend to vote against the party to which Bush happens to belong does not make me biased when I point out that he speaks English as though it was his second language...and he doesn't speak a second language at all.

[hs]

YEAH!!!

[Reona]

I think that it's going to go down as one more things indicating the approval of Bush. Over 2000 soldiers have been killed and there is nothing to show for it.

Bush's approval rating is low and sinking. I think that if the election were today, people would not have voted for bush.

If it's not to out and out drive out the regime, it will be a good indicator that they cannot go on acting the way they are and that people will not stand for it.

[dandelionstreet]

Right-- people will not stand for it! I think that Americans have been complacent for too long. Bush 'n friends have taken advantage of this by their USA Today-graphic style color codes to incite fear, and blatantly lying about WMD, etc.

Most of the people who say they hate Bush (not hard to find these folks) don't even know about all the atrocities that have occured and are being committed under our noses. That is not to say that terrible things only began to happen in the U.S. in 2000, but he's the jamoke with whom we've gotta deal right now.

Since the original posts about World Can't Wait, where several people submitted questions, assumptions, and suggestions, have all of you visited their Web site to find out the scoop? If not, you should:

http://www.worldcantwait.org

This movement will kick off next Wednesday (Nov. 2). It's not just a "cute little protest" for sport. Many people are fed up!! WCW is intended to cast a net around all the Bush-haters, so we can educate each other on our areas of expertise, and realize that trying to take on the superpower that is the U.S. government is ridiculous without greater numbers of people. Check out the site and see that people from various backgrounds have signed the call to drive out the Bush regime: ministers, rappers, actors, anti-war/pro-peace activists, communists, democrats, anarchists, parents, doctors, professors, etc. No, vigilante groups are not being invited, to get people riled up and cause attention. Don't you think the damage done by this regime is enough to fuel anyone's fire?

[VFW]

Your government, on the basis of a decade of reports from around the world that Saddam had and was trying to get WND’s, is waging a war in Iraq, with other countries that are against America in their sights.

Your government is openly interrogating people who are trying to kill innocent Americans, and justifying it.

Your government puts non citizens in jail who are conspiring to kill innocent Americans on the merest suspicion, refusing them lawyers, and either holding them indefinitely or deporting them in the dead of night

Your government is moving each day closer to a return of an originalist interpretation of the constitution, and where a Judao Christian brand of Christian fundamentalism provides the moral guide for our society

Your government wants a freedom in science where all theories are explored void of a political and economic agenda, allowing present and future generations to make up their own minds without leftist propaganda.

Your government is moving to allow women here, and all over the world to obtain all the information and guidance they need to make their decision about birth control and abortion.

Your government is trying to eliminate 50 years of leftist control of the culture that has produced a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance towards anyone who disagrees with their agenda and emotional ignorance.

[Alice Venturi]

VFW:

Your government, on the basis...

My government, despite cautions from its own intelligence agencies, twisted the information received from known questionable sources to support a war it had wanted before 9/11 ever happened. My government then used that twisted information to lie to the American people that they were in immediate danger of being attacked.

My government is illegally torturing people, and trying to justify it. My government is holding and torturing people who have never threatened the United States (at least, until we started torturing them).

My government is putting American citizens in jail, refusing them lawyers until forced to follow the Constitution by the Supreme Court, and holding them indefinitely.

My government is moving closer to the antithesis of what the Founding Fathers said they wanted in this country. My government seeks to remove the wall of separation between church and state, showing favortism towards one particular version of one particular religion.

My government is tying the hands and gagging the mouths of the scientists it employs when their findings don't support my government's political propaganda. My government wants to use the illusion of science to allow one particular religion to dictate what science actually is, and to allow that particular religion to enshrine it's own creation myths as "science".

My government is working to suppress birth control information here and abroad. My government promotes teaching false and misleading information to young women in public schools. My government is working to limit the choices available to women, both here and abroad, in determining what happens to their own bodies.

My government is working to re-institutionalize the "robber baron" mentality of the very rich of the previous century-and-a-half. My government is working to remove all safety nets for workers, while treating the very rich to perks like a lower percentage of the tax burden.

I don't know where you live, VFW, but the American government isn't doing so hot right now. The sooner this administration is out of power, the safer Americans will be, at home and abroad.

[VFW]

My God less friend you sure hate this country don't you?

[Marveling at Alice]

Alice is one of those misled folks who banks on intellectualism and knowledge to solve everything. She believes SHE has all of the answers. The arrogance that comes through in her posts is nauseating.

[The Atheist]

(Singing a song) OH VFW, I do so love your posts...::whistles::

**Your government, on the basis of a decade of reports...**

For every report that Saddam had or was in the process of acquiring the vaguely-defined "WMD," there were three reports that he had nothing and was completely contained. Rice and Cheney are quoted as having said such prior to 9-11. Cheney is quoted during the gulf war, saying essentially that is was good that we didn't invade Iraq, because it would have been too messy and expensive. I guess he changed his mind...

**Your government is openly interrogating...**

So torture is justified? Perhaps you'd care to explain that one.

**Your government puts non citizens in jail...**

And can do the same to citizens...a definite change in the constitution, a weakening of American freedom, and an expansion of government power...all things conservatives are supposed to be against.

**Your government is moving each day closer to a return of an originalist...**

You have got to be kidding. We move further from the original constitution every day. Vox Day sums it up: http://voxday.blogspot.com/

-------------------------
1. The right to life is under siege, for unborn children, disabled children and the elderly.
2. The right to liberty is all but destroyed already.
3. You still have the right to pursue happiness.
4. The right to free speech has been eliminated by sexual harassment laws, hate crime laws, the FEC and campaign reform laws.
5. The right to a free press has been limited by campaign reform laws and the establishment of the FCC.
6. The right to bear arms has been significantly reduced by gun control laws.
7. The right to be secure in your person, houses, papers and effects has been eliminated by the drug laws, the airport laws, the IRS, etc.
8. The right to a public and speedy trial has been eliminated by the Patriot Act. Once declared an "enemy combatant" by a government official you can be held indefinitely.
9. The right to trial by jury has been eliminated by the family "courts", the tax "courts" and the immigration "courts", none of which even belong to the judicial branch but are simply executive-branch bureaucrats dressed up as judges.
10. The right to due process of law has been eliminated. See 9.
11. The right to not have your property taken except for justly compensated public use has been eliminated under Kelo.
----------------------

Note that I do not agree with him on #1, and only partially on #4 and #6. But otherwise he's right, the government has swelled in power, and Bush has only helped it.

VFW goes on...

**Your government wants a freedom in science where all theories are explored void of a political and economic agenda, allowing present and future generations to make up their own minds without leftist propaganda.**

And rightist propaganda, I hope?

**Your government is moving to allow women here, and all over the world to obtain all the information and guidance they need to make their decision about birth control and abortion.**

I only wish you were right about these, but for every step forward there are those who want to force steps back.

And finally:

**Your government is trying to eliminate 50 years of leftist control of the culture that has produced a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance towards anyone who disagrees with their agenda and emotional ignorance.**

Support this. Make an argument. I'm waiting. Until you do, it's just you talking and pretending it's fact. You're only promoting misunderstanding through the use of your useless labels.

Oh, and I love my country. My country is the greatest country in the world. Which is why I will point out all its mistakes and hypocrisies, in the hope that it will not repeat them and become even better in doing so. I have solutions for every one of the problems I critique.

[Alice Venturi]

VFW:

My God less friend you sure hate this country don't you?

What a silly thing to say.

a) I believe in God. Just not in your representation of Him/Her/It.

b) You are foolish to assume that disapproval of the current administration is the same as disapproval of America.

[VFW]

I agree with him on #1, #4 & #6 on #2, # 8 & # 10 I only partially agree but we have to watch these the closest because it is border line totalitarianism. # 5 McCain Feingold has been a disastrous policy that Bush failed to veto! # 7 I agree the IRS is just the SS in disguise and needs to be eliminated and the search law without probable cause in the Patriot act has to be removed. # 11 is more totalitarian rule and was voted in by the liberal side of the Supreme Court and opposed vehemently by the Conservative side!
The Reagan Revolution has been stifled to the point where it is nothing more than liberal lite. As most Republican Supreme Court nominees have turned out to be treacherous supporters of big government, activist liberals in disguise, their legislative and executive branch colleagues likewise revealed themselves to be every bit as unfaithful to conservative principles of small government and individual freedom. President Bush has been as big a disappointment to the Conservative cause as Judge Souter has, With his strange combination of strategic Wilsonian foreign policy and tactical Keynesian domestic policy, the president managed to make it abundantly clear that in domestic terms, his presidential guiding light is Lyndon Baines Johnson, not Ronald Wilson Reagan.
On the cultural civil war in which America is engaged is, in large measure, about American exceptionalism. Conservative America generally believes in the concept; liberal America generally finds it chauvinistic and dangerous.

We who believe in American exceptionalism have contempt for the United Nations, mistrust the World Court, regard Amnesty International as another morally confused leftist organization, and think little of the world's media and academic elites, and regards "world opinion" as morally confused and left-wing media manipulated.

On the Left those who like the ACLU, who regard even the smallest cross on any county or city seal as a religious threat to the secular republic, who think it America's fault that this country is not highly regarded in public opinion polls from Canada to Germany to South Korea, and who believe that other nations' laws should be cited in U.S. Supreme Court decisions. The difference between the two sides' views of law, especially international law, For the Left., the law is the highest good; for the Right, especially the Judeo-Christian Right, morality is higher than law.
The secular world and most of the amoral liberal left, law has to be the highest definition of the good. Because it does not believe in a universal and objective morality as the Judeo-Christian world does, it has no choice but to put all its moral eggs in the legal basket. For the Judeo-Christian world, law is very, very important. But God-based morality is even more important.

Rosa Parks just died. She is venerated precisely because she knew a morality higher than law.